Curse

Navaros · Dec 09, 2005, 06:15 PM // 18:15

In my view the idea that new players should be receiving special treatment is absurd. The reason why fame and rank has meaning is precisely because it's hard to get. If it was easy to get, then it would have no meaning. Getting rank 3 is indeed too easy to get these days, yet still people complain that they want emotes sooner than rank 3. It's getting really ridiculous.

Why not just have a button for new players that they click on and when they do the entire enemy team dies instantly?

If you are handed a "I am a good player" badge on silver platter, then your badge has no meaning. If you are a good player, prove it. The other good players have proven it by their rank. If you can't do the same, then that's nobody's fault but your own.

All the people who already got their fame and rank did not receive any special treatment. Neither should anyone else.

It is true that many bad players have a good rank. Yet it is also true that all good players will be able to achieve a good rank, and most of them already have it.

Those who cannot "put their money where their mouth is" so to speak; those who say they are good yet are incapable of achieving rank - well they do not deserve the benefits that go along with rank. They haven't earned it.

I agree with the idea that Guild Wars PVP is harsh on new players. However, the suggestion to force letting new, clueless players leech off of the skills of good players is unequitable and therefore unacceptable.

yangster · Dec 09, 2005, 09:21 PM // 21:21

Giving an emote for all ranks so they can prove there rank to others, sure. But decreasing the amount of fame to get rank, no.

Almighty Zi · Dec 09, 2005, 10:04 PM // 22:04

I don't like the idea of higher ranked players losing fame if they lose to lower ranked players. Sometimes high ranked guilds test builds in tombs and some of those builds ultimately don't work out. If they lost fame everytime they tested a build that failed then you would find that there would be a lot fewer creative builds around and a huge rise in the played and tested builds. This would soon result in tombs becoming boring - it is already infested with flavour of the month builds (you know who you are) as it is.

I am also not totally convinced that fame should be awarded for GvG either. Rank is meant to show how much experience (not skill) a person has in the tombs environment. The tombs maps and the builds you find in tombs do differ from builds that guilds will use for GvG matches and therefore experience in GvG (or any other kind of PvP) does not necessarily show that the player will be good within the tombs environment.

Rank is gained much like experience and that is over time, therefore, it provides a good indication of a players experience within tombs, however, it does not provide an indication of a player's skill - you will have to find that out through trialing or by 'word of mouth'. A recommendation from another player beats any rank/experience/in game attribute in my opinion.

Unfortunately, people put more weight into rank than they should when deciding on team members - its not the ultimate criteria for finding good players, however, I do not feel that lower fame requirements for ranks or providing fame from doing other PvP will resolve this issue.

Scrubs Can Die · Dec 09, 2005, 10:31 PM // 22:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by Perishiko ReLLiK

Rank shows skill, and for those with no skill, their ability to be lifeless.

Rank does not show skill. Only scrubs think that because they see good groups that are supposedly rank 9 (Wow, rank 9, that means you're good right?) because those players happen to actually be better.

SaintGreg · Dec 10, 2005, 05:16 AM // 05:16

I have enough trouble remembering which rank is which emote (except that deer=3), if they had a different emote for each different level....

Medion · Dec 10, 2005, 08:51 AM // 08:51

Quote:

Losing fame is such a bad idea. No high-ranked players in their right mind would accept lower ranked players into their group and risk losing his fame, and finding pickups would become much harder than it already is.

The idea of Slick blade was that the higher your rank is, the more you lose if you lose against a lower ranked team.
At first, no-one would want to give up a team of 8 rank-9 players right? But those teams lose too! And that way, they will lose fame, meaning after I while a few of that team may become rank 8.
Now... to be sure you don't lose too much fame, you take some lower-ranked people, not even necesarry that they are rank 0.
The team may lose a little more often now, but they won't lose as much fame as they would have with 8 rank-9 players.

There should be a good balance between [8 rank-9] and [6 rank-9 + 2 rank-3]

This way, there would become some kind of mixture between all people. So it will stop that the old players will remain playing with the old players.

Quote:

I don't like the idea of higher ranked players losing fame if they lose to lower ranked players. Sometimes high ranked guilds test builds in tombs and some of those builds ultimately don't work out. If they lost fame everytime they tested a build that failed then you would find that there would be a lot fewer creative builds around and a huge rise in the played and tested builds. This would soon result in tombs becoming boring - it is already infested with flavour of the month builds (you know who you are) as it is.

That is a good point, but you maybe implement you won't lose the first round any fame, so that if you lose the first round, it doesn't cost you anything?

Quote:

Giving an emote for all ranks so they can prove there rank to others, sure. But decreasing the amount of fame to get rank, no.

Bad idea to give every rank emotes, then you will get groups asking for rank 1or rank 2 groups, causing that new players will be totally left out.

Quote:

In my view the idea that new players should be receiving special treatment is absurd. The reason why fame and rank has meaning is precisely because it's hard to get. If it was easy to get, then it would have no meaning. Getting rank 3 is indeed too easy to get these days, yet still people complain that they want emotes sooner than rank 3. It's getting really ridiculous.

Ok, for people who only play tombs, it might be easy to get to rank 3 in a week. But for people who normally PvE, it won't be that easy. Ok, stick with PvE then? No! Sometimes a PvE-person wants to go PvP for once as well. But (s)he doesn't want to wait an hour before getting a group!

Just make it to a combination of the idea of Fallot and Slick Blade.

Navaros · Dec 10, 2005, 10:51 AM // 10:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by Medion

Ok, for people who only play tombs, it might be easy to get to rank 3 in a week. But for people who normally PvE, it won't be that easy. Ok, stick with PvE then? No! Sometimes a PvE-person wants to go PvP for once as well. But (s)he doesn't want to wait an hour before getting a group!

Yes, it may not be easy for a PVE-person to get rank 3, but that's the whole point of rank. Rank is not candy to be given out freely. It's supposed to something that is hard to achieve.

And just FYI, there is waiting o'plenty for groups at every rank level. Oftentimes a R6+ PUG will take two or three hours to assemble, and then lose in round 3 to IWAY and disband.

I'm just under rank 9, and I've been in zillions of rank 6 PUGs over the months where this has happened. Even with players who are known to hold Halls all the time, it still happens with their groups too.

In Guild Wars PVP, long waits to get into a good group are inevitable.

The reality is that if you can't tolerate waiting to get into a good group, you are never gonna like Guild Wars PVP. Because the waiting is never going to go away, even after you've gotten rank 6.

fallot · Dec 10, 2005, 11:14 AM // 11:14

Ranks and Fame is besides the point. I dont care if I never make a single Rank, I just want to be able to get into a reasonable Tombs team without discrimination. Its not quite so difficult for me, I can just get a group of RL friends instead but other people dont have this option.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Navaros

The reality is that if you can't tolerate waiting to get into a good group, you are never gonna like Guild Wars PVP. Because the waiting is never going to go away, even after you've gotten rank 6.

True, but you shouldnt have to wait hours to get into a crap group.

Slick Blade · Dec 10, 2005, 01:00 PM // 13:00

Quote:

I don't like the idea of higher ranked players losing fame if they lose to lower ranked players. Sometimes high ranked guilds test builds in tombs and some of those builds ultimately don't work out. If they lost fame everytime they tested a build that failed then you would find that there would be a lot fewer creative builds around and a huge rise in the played and tested builds. This would soon result in tombs becoming boring - it is already infested with flavour of the month builds (you know who you are) as it is.

Im not saying the high rank players should drop rank when they lose just a few fame points. So what if they lose a few trying a build that doesnt work out if they are good players they should easily make it up again and if not they dont deserve there high rank. I mean once your up to rank6 or rank9 how many loses losing 1 0r 2 fame points would u need to drop to rank5.